Notes on John 17: 1 – 11

When we had read this passage through we all agreed that this was the loveliest passage we had read. This prayer felt very intimate and led us to some good theological discussion. Once again we felt that the passage restricted us and that we needed to look back to the previous chapter starting at verse 31, and also to look forward to include verse 13. We wondered why the lectionary started at chapter 17 verse 1 with the words “After he had said this Jesus looked up to heaven” We thought that congregants would want to know what it was Jesus had just finished saying. But in one version of the text (REB) it does not start with these words but with “Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said:” We were reminded once again how a different translation can make all the difference to a reading. This led to a discussion on how, in some churches, the pew Bibles were not the same edition as the lectern bible, causing some misunderstandings and difficulties for the congregation and preacher on occasion. Some preachers make sure they read the text of their message from their own Bible because of these difficulties.

If the previous weeks’ readings have not been followed, congregants may need to be reminded of the context, even when reading from chapter 16 verse 31. Jesus knows he is soon to die, Judas has left to betray Jesus and, after supper, Jesus sits and talks to the disciples. He brings them words of encouragement and comfort for the time when he will no longer with them in the flesh, but with them in a new way, the Holy Spirit. In the Gospel these words occur before the crucifixion, yet we read this in the weeks between Easter and Pentecost. We discussed why this should be, but did not come up with a definitive solution.

We were struck by the constant repetition of the glorification of God in the texts we have read over the last weeks. In this passage it is noticeable how Jesus points to God and God’s gifts to him. Jesus makes plain that His glory is to glorify God. In verse 10 Jesus says that he will be glorified through his disciples. Does this apply only to those first disciples? We came to the conclusion that if it is part of scripture then it is for all readers, including us. It is therefore significant and important to note that Jesus says how it will be through his disciples that his glory would be revealed.

We again found ourselves having the discussion about whose words these are, Jesus’ or John’s? We thought that, even though John was writing, he was writing what he remembered; so the words may not be accurate but the sentiments would be.

In verses 6 – 8 Jesus makes it clear that the disciples now understand his life and ministry. They now know God in a new way, and this is what God desired from Jesus’ ministry. This links to chapter 16 verse 26 (how believers have direct access to God) as well as verse 11 (how we can be one with God and Jesus). Hymn number 805 can be helpful with this idea.

These thoughts led to a discussion on whether God sent Jesus to die. This idea has caused some controversy outside Christianity, notably with Richard Dawkins who cannot understand how a God of love could send his son to die a terrible death. Some of us thought that God did not send Jesus to die, but to make his love known to everyone in order to help humans have a proper relationship with God. We felt that God hoped that Jesus would be able to achieve this through his ministry. The question was then raised as to what might have happened if Jesus had not been crucified. Our answer was that Jesus’ death became inevitable due to the power and wealth tied up in religious hierarchies. And, when this death became inevitable, Jesus obeyed the necessity of it and God, through the resurrection, made it a victory not a defeat. Questions were asked on how all these ideas tied in with the ideas of atonement and sacrifice? We thought that they arose out of what actually happened and did not interfere with our belief that God had not sent Jesus deliberately to die.

In verse 11 Jesus prays that God will protect His disciples, so that they can become one, as Jesus is one with God. This idea struck us deeply and we read this as a promise that eventually we would be part of Jesus and of God. How does this knowledge help us to live by Kingdom values? We talked about problems between Christians from different denominations. We talked about the cancelling of the Methodist ordination service at Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral and felt saddened that this was not now going ahead. We wondered how this would impact on all being one with Jesus and God.

Jesus’ prayer in this reading is an intercessory prayer for disciples. Some Christians use still use Jesus, the Virgin Mary or other saints as intercessors. In chapter 16 verse 26, Jesus tells the disciples that he will not necessarily pray for them because God loves them as His followers. We understood Jesus to be saying that they and we have direct access to God if we wish. That is not to say that we could not use an intercessor if we felt it appropriate, but that we do not need one. If verse 11 is to be believed, it confirms that we do not need an intercessor by saying that disciples have the chance to be one with Jesus and God “…that they may be one as we are one”.

This passage is full of encouragement, reassurance and challenge, - reassurance and encouragement that through Jesus we can know God in an intimate way, and challenging in that it is through our actions as His followers that Jesus will be glorified.

One of our group noticed how in verse 11 Jesus refers to God as “Holy Father”, thus separating himself from God who is “Holy”. This led to a long and detailed discussion of the Trinity, as follows. If Jesus refers to God as a separate Holy being we should not refer to Jesus as God. Yet, as part of the Trinity, Jesus is God! When Jesus was a man he was not God but a separate being, but when He died Jesus returned to God and became part of God. Jesus is speaking here as a separate agent of God, but one with very close ties to God. It is also clear that followers and disciples are agents of Jesus in the same way that Jesus is the agent of God; so verse 11, which states we can all be one, is saying something miraculous and wonderful. When we are resurrected we will be part of God, just as Jesus is part of God.

Over the past weeks we have read a lot about eternal life. In this passage Jesus tells his disciples what he means. In verse 3 Jesus says “This is eternal life to know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent.” Through Jesus this knowing God in intimate relationship is open to all people. As Methodists we understand this as John Wesley’s four alls of Methodism.

What would we preach on?

1. Verse 11 – the verse which promises we can all be one.

2. Acts 1, the other reading for the day!